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COMMENTS (10 to date)
Bernard Yomtov writes:
Adversely distorted with respect to what? Why can't the labor/leisure trade-off in Europe simply be different than that in the US without either one being "distorted?" Posted August 16, 2004 3:08 PM
John Thacker writes:
Bernard-- "Adversely distorted" merely meaning that government regulation and other intervention results in people changing their behavior and, on the whole, achieving less utility than they would otherwise. Prof. Kling quite clearly in his "For Discussion" leaves open the possibility that distortion is not occurring. Posted August 17, 2004 12:41 AM
Michael Messina writes:
As I was skimming through the EPI chapter linked to in the press release, I couldn't help but wonder: why is Norway so productive (31% more productive than the US)? Their unemployment is low (3.9% 2002), so I don't see how labor laws, as you alluded to, can have much effect. However, there is one interesting thing about the Norwegian economy: oil. According to this article (I can't find official statistics), the oil industry accounts for about 20% of their GDP and employs only about 25,000 people (total population 4.3 million). Even if these people worked 100% of the time, the nation's productivity ($ GDP/hour worked) would be high, since they are such a small percentage of the population and produce a significant amount of GDP (assuming everyone else is not extremely unproductive). It would also mean that when oil prices increase, their productivity would increase accordingly. I am not sure any other country in the EPI article has such a situation. Regardless, this at least shows that comparing aggregate productivity numbers across nations can be problematic, particularly when you are talking about countries with differing economic focus. For Norway, it is natural resources (and the fact that it is relatively small compared to the value of those resources). For the Netherlands, maybe it is the fact that it is heavily into foreign trading. For the other countries, maybe it is labor laws. It seems that to make valid comparisons, you need to compare sectors (e.g. "manufacturing", maybe even more specific). Record the output, count the hours, divide, and then compare. Aggregation gets rid of too much information. Posted August 17, 2004 4:43 AM
Bernard Yomtov writes:
John, Yes, I understood that he was not suggesting there necessarily is a distortion. But I still maintain that the question is impossible to answer without a reference point, and I don't think the one you suggest works. We have no sensible way to determine what choices people would make in the absence of government. Maybe they would spend a lot more on firearms, armored cars, bodyguards and the like. We have no way to measure the utility provided by government. Most important, I think it is wrong to assume that government programs and "interventions" necessarily reduce utility. The economic structure of a democracy is not imposed by malevolent outsiders. It is chosen through a political process. Why the idea that these must be utility-reducing choices? Posted August 17, 2004 8:53 AM
Gary writes:
"The Economic Policy Institute, a left-wing think tank (well, the newspapers always refer to Cato and Heritage as right-wing think tanks, don't they?), " Posted August 17, 2004 11:33 AM
Scott Nesbitt writes:
Gary, I do not think Cato calls itself either conservative or right-wing. At the below link, under "How to Label Cato" it discusses this: http://www.cato.org/about/about.html Scott Nesbitt Posted August 17, 2004 3:40 PM
Sandy P writes:
--"nonprofit, nonpartisan think tank that seeks to broaden the public debate about strategies to achieve a prosperous and fair economy."--- Fair economy???? Oh, yeah, that's a conservative thinktank. Posted August 17, 2004 9:43 PM
Mattew writes:
In prehistoric times there were no taxcollectors, so perhaps the hunter-gatherer is a nice reference point. Professor Sharon Beder, ('Working Long Hours', Engineers Australia, March 2001, p. 42) writes: According to anthropologists, hunter-gatherer societies were able to meet their needs and enjoy an adequate diet with 20-35 hours work per week. Peasants doing agricultural work in medieval times, worked according to growth cycles and seasons and were thought to have worked perhaps 120-150 days in a year, although some of these days would have been long. Even lazier than modern Europeans... Perhaps it is the Americans that have a distorted work-ethic. (read: (Granted, the marginal product of labor was very low in those days. But if one assumes that the substitution and income effects cancel out, the situations are still comparable). Or am I wrong? Mattew Posted August 18, 2004 8:13 AM
BatmanG8 writes:
Any business anywhere will avoid hiring workers beyond the point where productivity fails to match costs. In economics according to Jerry Maguire & Rod Tidwell, this is known as the need for the marginal employee to "materialize the coin". "Coin" is pronounced in French fashion, "quan", since it represents the quantum of value that must be produced for employment to be sustainable. Government action can greatly affect the level of "the coin" that must be materialized. Minimum wage laws increase it, as do employment taxes (e.g. socialist insecurity, workers' compensation "insurance", unemployment "insurance"), various regulations, other taxes... And that leads one to interest in measuring and comparing "the coin" among different states within the United States and different countries. Of course, from the employee's POV, the most important issue between economic depressions is getting the seemingly recalcitrant employer to, "Show me the money." when he is far more productive than "the coin", and the executives are raking in huge cash and option while seeming to fail to "materialize the coin", themselves. Posted August 25, 2004 10:39 AM
BatmanG8 writes:
"The Economic Policy Institute, a left-wing think tank (well, the newspapers always refer to Cato and Heritage as right-wing think tanks, don't they?), " Remember Cato and Heritage describe themselves as right-wing or conservative. EPI does not declare a political wing anywhere in its descriptions and if fact refer to themselves "nonprofit, nonpartisan think tank that seeks to broaden the public debate about strategies to achieve a prosperous and fair economy". Agreed that EPI is weaselly about their leanings. Based on their press releases and posted material I'd say EPI is left-wing, Heritage conservative, and Cato seems to be about 75% right-wing and 25% libertarian these days (having shifted more right-wing over time). But it is important to look at what everyone is saying in their reports and such. What is high-lighted in this article is that there is no perfect economic data, and certainly none on this topic. Each think tank chooses which data to use, based on which data they have developed on their own, which they can easily access, and how they were thinking about the issue at the time. Each kind of data is better for some kinds of analysis than it is for others. And the best we can do is look at and weigh all of it in as informed a manner as possible. Of course, when a news-paper chain features a snippet of such data in a small but fancy graphic titled "BizFact: Ahead of Uncle Sam", they don't encourage many of their readers to look any further but to accept what is shown to guide their thinking about public policy. Posted August 25, 2004 10:58 AM
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