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TrackBack URL: http://econlog.econlib.org/mt/mt-tb.cgi/896
The author at NEMA Currents in a related article titled Uncle Sam (and Hank) to the Rescue writes:
COMMENTS (31 to date)
Chuck writes:
'props' is short for 'proper respect'. Props to you for a good post. Posted September 19, 2008 8:32 AM
Mark writes:
Arnold says: Why? Are you saying that markets don't work for executive compensation? I bet there are a bunch of shareholders of companies like Merrill-Lynch, Bear Stearns, Lehman Bros., etc., (even AIG), who won't make the same mistake twice. Posted September 19, 2008 8:36 AM
Dan Weber writes:
I bet there are a bunch of shareholders of companies like Merrill-Lynch, Bear Stearns, Lehman Bros., etc., (even AIG), who won't make the same mistake twice. Shareholders are sheep. How many times in the US have shareholders rejected a board recommendation? The one consolation is that when shareholders suck at their job, it's shareholders who lose money. Posted September 19, 2008 9:06 AM
Matt C writes:
> I bet there are a bunch of shareholders ... who won't make the same mistake twice. Maybe for a few years. The old wine will have to find a new bottle. Then they'll chase returns same as always. I don't exempt myself here. Posted September 19, 2008 9:19 AM
Arnold Kling writes:
Mark, Posted September 19, 2008 9:20 AM
8 writes:
Most shareholders are institutions, and their money is managed by financial professionals. I don't think they are sheep so much as the management and shareholders were from the same group. Posted September 19, 2008 9:28 AM
Johan Richter writes:
Aren't investors gonna figure out that the mortages suck regardless of what sort of accounting you use? And then be as likely to panic regardless? Posted September 19, 2008 9:33 AM
Marcus writes:
"Now, that was June of 2004, and the last upward lurch of home prices took place afterward. But in thinking that it would take a rise in interest rates to put a damper on home prices, I was clearly wrong." But interest rates did rise. The Fed kept raising the rates until the bubble burst. Short term rates were over 5% at the end of 2006 and early 2007. Posted September 19, 2008 9:52 AM
shayne writes:
Perhaps it's just me, but the government (taxpayer) intervention being described (absent salient details) has every appearance of placing a FLOOR price - above the market equilibrium - for each of the following commodities: 1.) Financial entity stock prices (short sell suspension) ... with ALL of the related imbalance between suppliers and demanders, AND with ALL of the costs of that imbalance borne by the taxpayers. I am neither impressed nor amused. I suspect that a government that plays by it's own rules and requires ALL of it's constituents to play by those rules is in order. Posted September 19, 2008 10:27 AM
Ed Brenegar writes:
This is a great explanation of the financial crisis we are in. It strikes me that what we are experiencing is equivalent to a Katrina event. Well-meaning, even naive, people invest in property in a hurricane zone, never thinking that the next hurricane could wipe them out. We are an eternally optimistic people, and that when something like Katrina or FM/FM,LB,ML,or AIG happens, we are surprised and emotionally devastated. The reality is that we bring it on ourselves for being intellectually lazy and trusting of people's words instead of the range of potential consequences to their actions. Posted September 19, 2008 10:34 AM
kurt9 writes:
A 60 to 1 leveraging ratio at Freddie and Fannie is quite good! Rogue trader Nick Leeson made it to only an 8 to 1 ratio before crashing Barings Bank. Posted September 19, 2008 11:43 AM
Isaac K. writes:
"I still think we're in an interest rate bubble, by which I mean that rates on Treasuries are unsustainably low. But, based on my track record, you've got to be skeptical." a. How about "Barney Frank keeps trying to lure Fannie and Freddie with his Syron song"? ot that they should have ignored "the wail of the Syron"? Thanks again for a wonderful and insightful post. Posted September 19, 2008 11:46 AM
nelsonal writes:
I think when people speak of the problems with Basel II, mark to market etc, they don't mean that those are bad per se, rather that capital standards as they are currently formatted are exceedingly pro-cyclical and don't work once a crisis has begun. Posted September 19, 2008 12:01 PM
Dan writes:
Re: Manager profits vs. shareholder profits This is a tax policy issue, no? If all executives were required to have their skin in the game as the sole method of compensation, then there would not be the pyramid scheme of diverted profits to managers while they run the company into the ground. Posted September 19, 2008 1:04 PM
Barkley Rosser writes:
Regarding the mark to market and Basel II issue, it is the combination of the two that generates the unpleasantly pro-cyclical outcome. It is fine to have accounting do mark to market. It is when insists that because of some standard coming out of Basel that when the current accounting shows sufficient paper losses that the institution must therefore go out and "raise capital," that then leads to a further devaluation of assets and therefore more mark to market/Basel-enforced selloffs that we have a problem, which we do. Posted September 19, 2008 1:16 PM
Barkley Rosser writes:
Arnold, I am not as prominent as Dean or Paul or Bob, but I was calling it a housing bubble back in 2005 both on maxspeak and in comments here, just for the record. Posted September 19, 2008 1:17 PM
Greg writes:
The piece on the ratings agencies is a bit confusing. If AIG's default risk insurance was really the basis for assessing mortgage-backed securities, not the ratings agencies, how did AIG come up with a price? And isn't the broader implication that ratings of mortgage securities are basically useless? Why are they there if people don't rely on them? Posted September 19, 2008 3:11 PM
aaron writes:
I'd add d) increase in commodity prices. This sparked inflation, and not just the inflation that only affects rich people. It seriously skeward peoples risk return models. Cost were up, margins were thin, and real incomes down, and with asset prices down more than down payments; default became a much more likely option. Posted September 19, 2008 3:29 PM
aaron writes:
Oop. Don't know what skeward means. Meant skewered. Posted September 19, 2008 3:32 PM
TheFinanceDude writes:
I have a hard time believing rating agencies share zero culpibility when they sent the models to the ibanks so they could hit the number they wanted. The pathetic SEC duopolizes the entrance into this lucrative market and we act suprised when they all act in the same manner assigning triple AAA to junk? AIG insured CDO's because they were presumed to be riskless at TripA. What am I missing here to absolve them of their blood? Posted September 19, 2008 3:32 PM
Lord writes:
They won't make the exact same mistake again, but they are creative and find a new way to make it. That is the foundation of the finance industry; it isn't very profitable without them in the short term, or very profitable with them in the long term. It is called separating fools from their money. (No, it is not down payments but lack of verifiable rigorous income qualification that is central to the matter. Do you really think 20% is so much when prices are rising by more than that yearly?) Posted September 19, 2008 3:46 PM
Les writes:
I think it is incorrect to blame "mark to market" accounting for the financial crises. Interest rates are currently very low, so market prices of financial instruments are very high with respect to current interest rates. Therefore it is not logical to attribute low prices for financial instruments to "mark to market" accounting. Much more probably low prices for financial instruments are based upon high risk premiums due to serious credit concerns that impair the value of financial instruments. Posted September 19, 2008 4:39 PM
Walt French writes:
Since you're interested in how these things evolved, how about a recent history of legislation around GSE regulation? Mike Oxley (ex R-Ohio) is recently on record as blaming the White House for killing (with a "one-fingered salute") enhanced regulation that he maneuvered thru the House; the White House points to a do-nothing Congress that the GSEs controlled, despite Republican dominance of all the committees and majorities. Can both of these histories be true? My own belief is that the free-market ideologues are purposefully blind to externalities such as systemic failure, and with them in ascendancy, we allowed the principles that underlay the creation of the SEC and FRB to atrophy. I'd like to see full Pigovian taxes to offset Too Big To Fail businesses, and required insurance for ALL businesses that hold client monies above and beyond what ordinary bankruptcy laws can handle well. (And the insurance can also be market priced, by requiring SRO type self-insurance with the Feds providing re-insurance.) The purpose of these taxes aka "required insurance", as with any externality tax, is to provide minimal but effective regulation, while letting Business Be Business. 'Cuz I'm all in favor of businesses taking huge risks if they deem it in their interest. (Most shareholders reign in their CEOs if they get too crazy, but egg them on to push the envelope.) They're welcome to run their companies into the ground. Believers in Creative Destruction Theory should cheer, even. Just as long as they're playing with their own money, not mine. Posted September 19, 2008 5:10 PM
Jim writes:
Now, that was June of 2004, and the last upward lurch of home prices took place afterward. But in thinking that it would take a rise in interest rates to put a damper on home prices, I was clearly wrong. So what makes you think you're right, now? Posted September 19, 2008 6:42 PM
Oskar Shapley writes:
Well, if your competitors make X% a year for seven years for their clients, you can not possibly make 0.5*X% for your clients and hope to keep your job that long. It's not simply about greedy fund managers risking long-term to reap short-term bonuses (aka Enron). Ruthless natural selection PREFERS the guys who's strategy looks great today but has to blow up every 10 years. It's also herding: "we have to invest in China, we have to go into subprimes, because we can not leave those markets to the competition". Posted September 19, 2008 10:28 PM
Dave writes:
'Risky moves cost CEO his life savings.." Dick Fuld of Lehman. Posted September 19, 2008 10:30 PM
Insider writes:
The op-ed reads "Bear Stearns, Lehman, Fannie Mae, Freddie Mac, and AIG Insurance, have their own internal tools for assessing mortgage credit risk." Calling finger-in-the-air guesses "internal tools" is a bit of a stretch. Posted September 20, 2008 2:07 AM
NancyB writes:
What ever happened to private mortgage insurance? I thought if the down payment was less than 20% borrowers were required to get PMI for their mortgages. Is PMI paying off here? I have not seen any mention of it in the articles I have read. Posted September 21, 2008 10:25 AM
W.C. Varones writes:
Why are there no protections for taxpayers in the Paulson bailout? Such as: 1) Treasury gets extremely dilutive warrants from any bank that touches this facility. This is what happened at AIG: the taxpayers may lose a lot of money, but at least Wall Street's profit from the scheme is minimized and the taxpayers get something back in a best-case scenario. 2) Executive compensation is capped at any bank that touches this facility. Nobody makes more than 10x or 20x the median employee, and no more stock options. Maybe even a clawback for ill-gotten gains during the bubble. Executives don't go along? Push them out. 3) A huge new program for the Justice Department to prosecute mortgage fraud and securities fraud for everyone that caused this problem, from Angelo Mozilo and investment bankers all the way down to speculators who committed fraud on their loan applications. Posted September 21, 2008 10:59 AM
Small Cap Manager writes:
One of the biggest problems the equity markets face is that shareholders do not act like owners of the companies. They don't go after Boards until something horrific has already happened. In my own fund, we went after a couple of Boards for absolutely ludicrous executive compensation packages. The reaction from our fellow fund managers in the sector was shocking; they were angry at US for making a stink. Predictably, the Board members knew that this was the prevailing attitude and did not do anything to address complaints. When the institutional shareholders view activism and criticism as "rocking the boat," companies are free to do what they want without being held to account. Posted September 21, 2008 12:26 PM
Steve Roth writes:
Mr. Kling: I just came across this thanks to a pointer from a freeexchange commenter. >The Rating Agencies Were Not the Problem Makes sense. Except: "investors used the price of this insurance, rather than the rating agency grades, to measure the risk of the securities." Did AIG et. al. consider the bonds' ratings when setting the price of the insurance? I don't know the answer, would be curious to hear. Seems like they woulda, no? If yes, then the ratings agencies--and their collusively developed ratings--are still culpable except at one remove. They'd still be the key point for regulatory leverage to encourage an efficient market. Alternatively: are you saying that the ratings were perfectly reasonable given what everyone knew of the market? Posted September 22, 2008 3:29 PM
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